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The election's over ... but the issues at stake are not. Black people who oppose Obama? Black people who refuse to vote in the "most important election" of our era? What can that be about? When a Nader adherent and an avowed indifferent sit down and talk politics, how will it go? The Hundred and Four in conjunction with the forthcoming Hellasquare.com presents a post-election discussion unlike any you may have seen, going from wrestling to rap and hitting every point in between ... even though this conversation actually took place on July 21st ...
8:14 PM
Hannibal: Hannibal leaps into the fray
All right. My name is Hannibal Tabu and I'm here with Jabir Faqir from White Folks Gone Wild and we're here to discuss ... well, how would you describe it?
Jabir: HellaSquare.com, coming soon.
Hannibal: My apologies.
Jabir: Is my new one
All good
Hannibal: Hannibal updates his files
Jabir: 'Precianate it
8:16 PM
Hannibal: How would you describe the reason behind this conversation, my good brother?
Jabir: O-bama
Big Barry
Hannibal: Ah, Obama. The "electrifying" presence in politics.
As if The Rock had gotten elected.
Jabir: Seems that way, eh?
8:17 PM
Hannibal: Okay, well, let's state up front: I'm not against Obama, but I'm not a supporter either.
Jabir: And I plain hate his guts
So I think that's a balance
Hannibal: The opposite of hate (or love) is indifference. Okay, that's clear enough. Let's talk about why?
Why hate Barry Obama?
Did he steal your girl?
Clarify?
8:18 PM
Jabir: lol
No... no no no
Nothing so personal
Because I read
Hannibal: Hannibal listens with rapt attention
Jabir: There are certain things that I believe in
Hannibal: Such as?
8:19 PM
Jabir: Such as ... war
Race
Religion
White people
Hannibal: Some we have in common.
Jabir: I'm not that far out there
Hannibal: But why exactly does this translate into ... well, a campaign against Barack Obama specifically?
Jabir: A few reasons
8:20 PM
Hannibal: (I ask because I'm curious -- hopefully it will eludicate the point to readers as well)
Jabir: I feel like this: it's completely acceptable to declare your love, admiration, adoration, respect, or worship for Obama
8:21 PM
Hannibal: Hannibal nods solemnly
But ...
Jabir: If you clasp your hands and your eyes get misty, and you nod your head as he leads another "electrifying" chant ... you're awesome
Hannibal: Hannibal chuckles politely
8:22 PM
Jabir: But... if you point out faults, flaws, shortcomings, inaccuracies, lies...
Hannibal: Politics ...
Jabir: You're a traitor to your race
EXACTLY
Hannibal: So lemme get this straight ...
Your beef is that when you call Barry what he is -- a politician -- people who are "devotees" come down on you as a blasphemer?
is that accurate?
8:23 PM
Jabir: I'd say even mild supporters
If I point out that dude voted to fund the war in Iraq, I have to look over my shoulder for a week
Hannibal: All right, that's fair. Then -- if you'll allow -- why a campaign against the man and not the supporters?
8:24 PM
Why hate him and not the people you're watching over your shoulder for? (and yes, I'm getting to my own side of it, which I'm happy to have picked apart)
Jabir: Because I disagree with him, and I feel that if more people 1: were not TERRORIZED by thinking for themselves or 2: took a moment to look at the facts, we'd be in better shape
8:25 PM
Hannibal: Hannibal smirks Oh. Optimism ... I've read about that on the internet ...
Jabir: There is nothing to pick apart of a devotee
Hannibal: Well, we'll have to disagree on that, but I'll save that for when I make my case
Jabir: The more devoted they are, the better
8:26 PM
Hannibal: Okay, so Barry's fans are, to put too fine a point on it, fanatical. Which irks you. Fair enough.
Jabir: The more they are willing to give up their morals, their own opinions, their thoughts... what they KNOW
Hannibal: Go on ...
Jabir: But it's not JUST because of his fans
Hannibal: Then why, my dear brother?
Jabir: It's the same reason I ranted to no end about Bill Clinton
While the same people wanted to ex-communicate me
8:27 PM
Hannibal: Ah, cults of personality are a sticking point with you -- apologies to Living Colour.
Jabir: lol
I have as MUCH right to work against wrong, as people have to support it
Hannibal: I can agree with that.
However, let me tell you a story, to kind of start my side of this ...
Hannibal sits back in his rocking chair
8:28 PM
Jabir: And, believe it or not, the more somebody like me is willing to speak up, the more comfortable others feel to do the same
hands clasped
Hannibal: Once upon a time I worked at a Black-owned community newspaper here in Los Angeles.
Jabir: Rhymes with "Dentinel?"
8:29 PM
Hannibal: Not in this story. Anyway, we got a lot -- and I mean a lot -- of very disparaging and wholly factual information about a lot of "notables" in the Black community. No, after that. The one I actually ran.
Anyhoo, the publisher -- who is an interesting story himself, as he allegedly helped found Church's Chicken before his twin brother screwed him out of all the money -- had a policy.
8:30 PM
Jabir: uh huh
6 minutes
8:36 PM
Jabir: whistling "Sitting on the Dock of the Bay"
8:37 PM
He told me, "Hannibal, I don't want our paper tearing down Black people. Even if they're wrong. That's what we have white people for. If you wanna tear down city hall, if you wanna tear into cops, have fun. But we give Black people the benefit of the doubt unless they're literally killing Black people."
8:40 PM
Jabir: I'm with that
Hannibal: Now, this guy wasn't exactly a rocket scientist -- the paper's now out of business, his second high profile business flop.
Jabir: But still
Hannibal: But on that singular point we agreed. I know Black people can be dazzling stupid, rapaciously evil, and downright incompetent. But nobody needs me to tell them that. We have Fox News, we have the Karl Rove machine and so on.
Jabir: A great sentiment
Hannibal: So when I saw your "campaign" -- especially when you said you wanted to campaign for Nader -- it just struck me as ... quixotic.
Hannibal waits to be picked apart
Jabir: Wow
8:41 PM
Don Quixote now?
Hannibal: Hannibal shrugs
I'm just saying! I hate to use latin, but "qui bono?"
Jabir: Well, bruh
Here's my thing
I'm a Muslim
Hannibal: Okay.
Jabir: Before I'm Black, I am a Muslim
Hannibal: All right.
8:42 PM
Jabir: I was going to say "beyond that" but there is no beyond that
IN ADDITION
Hannibal: I don't know what that means, but all right ...
Jabir: It'll come together
Hannibal: Hannibal waits patiently
Jabir: A Black Man who loves Black People
I love Black People waaaaay more than Black People love Black People
8:43 PM
Hannibal: Sad but not difficult to do.
Jabir: I know you know
Hannibal: Hannibal nods solemnly
Jabir: I want what is "best" for my people, I am HAPPY seeing "us" succeed, individually and as a whole
But ...
Hannibal: But?
8:44 PM
Hannibal grins evilly
Jabir: I also know, that ever since WE started getting organized
Since groups of us have been getting together and working to find ways to overthrow/overhaul (fix) this broken system
"They" have been using Black faces to destroy us from the inside
8:45 PM
Hannibal: ... okay ...
Jabir: Here we go
How were the Black Panthers taken out (of effectiveness)?
Hannibal: My mom was in Fred Hampton's chapter. You don't have to tell me about that.
8:46 PM
Hannibal: They whacked the effective ones and drugged/tossed women on to the others.
Jabir: Well, I'm not telling YOU as much as reminding both of us
Hannibal: I can dig that.
I'm just trying to get my brain around your argument here. You now posit the theory that Barry Obama is the modern day face of COINTELPRO?
Jabir: The Nation of Islam, my direct predecessors, how were they taken out?
Hannibal: They were stupid in some ways, but they were intensely attacked from without.
Subjected to pressures that they could not withstand.
8:47 PM
Jabir: Even street gangs ... it's hard to remember there was a time when the Bloods and Crips were not about crack and murder
Hannibal: Bunchy Carter could have said something in that direction, but again, effective ones had to die first.
Jabir: In each of these instances, the poison is always introduced from inside
Always
Hannibal: So that's your argument, then? Barry Obama is a modern plant? An agent provacateur?
8:48 PM
Jabir: Hip Hop music used to not be garbage, remember that?
Hannibal: Hip hop music still isn't. Rap music is.
Jabir: There were garbage rappers
Hannibal: That's a whole other blog/argument.
Jabir: I'm not having that arguement
Hannibal: Exactly.
Jabir: Whatever you call it, when you have to name the "good ones" it's trash
But in the 80's, until the mid 90's, we ran it
8:49 PM
Hannibal: But to focus, are you saying that you believe that Obama is a foreign influence that must be rooted out for ... some kind of good result?
Jabir: No, not at all
What I do believe is that when it comes down to it
8:50 PM
We can be our own (2nd) worst enemy
Hannibal: Which has what to do with Obama specifically?
Jabir: Specifically, he's on the wrong side of almost every issue
BUT
8:51 PM
Because he is "Black" people are more than willing to justify it, accept it, make excuses for it
8:52 PM
People SWEAR that he is some anti-war candidate
Hannibal: Okay ... well, you do know that the only competition he has is -- from any objective standpoint -- openly and unapologetically worse?
Jabir: Who has tried his part to stop the war in Iran, and stop the war in Afghanistan
That is the worst argument EVER
Because McCain is worse, we should accept Obama
Hannibal: I'm not saying that. But McCain fought against Black interests way, way, way past the safe date to do so. Openly. So to fight Obama, in a way, Nader's the argument that helps McCain.
8:53 PM
Jabir: Let me ask you this, my friend
Hannibal: I'm saying (and doing) this: when two people are fighting, and they're both bad, I let them fight.
Why do I need to get into it at all?
Ask away.
Jabir: If I told you that you have a choice between drinking bleach, or drinking ammonia, which one would you choose?
Hannibal: Punching you.
Jabir: I'm saying ...
Hannibal: I'm answering ...
8:54 PM
Jabir: I know
Hannibal: Or walking away, which is what I'm advocating.
Jabir: You say "F this. This ain't no choice'"
Hannibal: One of my ongoing problems with Black people in this country is "I have to say something!"
"Cui bono?" Where's the profit? What possible good can it do?
Jabir: I'm with it
8:55 PM
Only when it comes to politics do people give up what they believe
Hannibal: I say that no matter what I do, one will win. Why not save energy and attack whatever problems that come from that and not rail against anybody who's essentially doing practice laps?
Jabir: Or they are made to feel as though they have to
Hannibal: I'm not giving anything up. I'm a student of Mushashi. I'm fighting when I have something to win.
8:56 PM
Jabir: because until WE are willing to criticize these "choices" until we make them earn our votes, until we MAKE THEM get on the right side of the issues, until we tell them
f*** YOU AND I'M NOT VOTING FOR YOU UNTIL YOU DO WHAT WE SAY
This is what we have. No choice.
Hannibal: But I'm not voting, Jabir. I never have, and I probably never will.
It's a waste of time. To quote Talib, "conditions in the 'hood don't change with the president."
Jabir: In most countries in the world, NOT voting is a political action
It expresses "no confidence"
8:57 PM
Hannibal: Black people are so pro-Clinton, but Malice Green happened under Clinton.
Jabir: People are quick to diss those who don't vote
I'm not
Hannibal: I'm not.
Jabir: However, I do vote
And I believe that my vote is worth something
Hannibal: I'm advocating it, and even further, saying to not get involved. To, as Ron Daniels said, be "ungovernable."
Jabir: Since people want to tell me how many people died and bled for the right to vote, I believe it
mmmmm hmmmm
Hannibal: Well, good luck with that. I'm more skeptical.
8:58 PM
Since I know the vote counting mechanisms can be rigged. I know the process can be massaged.
Jabir: True
But you can't rig a landslide
Not yet
Hannibal: Sure you can.
Anyway, for that, amongst hundreds of other reasons, I don't want to be involved in massa's systems.
Jabir: If it's close, it can be altered
Hannibal: You can rig anything because the Bush administration has dulled people's sense of outrage.
8:59 PM
Few have anything left.
Jabir: I disagree
If it wasn't for Bush, I would not be me
I wouldn't do what I do for a living, I wouldn't be the person that I am
Bush created me
Hannibal: I can see some of that. I was ecstatic when he got "elected" both times. "Finally, it'll get so bad that people will have to do something."
Yet they still endure.
9:00 PM
Jabir: His evil, his arrogance, his unilateral WITH ME OR AGAINST ME, made me say "I'm against you"
Hannibal: I didn't need to hear him talk to know an enemy.
I'm from the south.
I know massa when I see him.
Jabir: You didn't
I needed 9/12/2001
9:01 PM
Hannibal: That week served as a big shake up for lots of people, but for me it was just business as usual.
But we're getting off topic ...
I believe that your energies -- and even Jesse's energies, and those of many -- could be used better than engaging in this electoral idiocy.
9:02 PM
Jabir: Well, I would too
Hannibal: "... but ..."
Jabir: If I didn't know the people who tell me what a difference I make to them, personally
Hannibal: So it's ego?
Jabir: No
It's effective
9:03 PM
Hannibal: To what end?
9:05 PM
Jabir: I dunno
9:06 PM
I'm not old yet
Hannibal: Hannibal falls down laughing
Hold on, wait, stop ... you're driving in the dark, with no lights and no map?
Seriously?
Jabir: I recognize already the absurdity of this comparison
9:07 PM
Hannibal: Let's try this: what end are you trying to get to with all of this?
Jabir: But how many slaves did Harriet Tubman intend to free?
2?
3?
10?
100?
Hannibal: "Intend?" A lot
She may not have spec'ed it out, but her intentions were always grand.
Which leads me back to asking where are you trying to go with your anti-Obamanism?
9:08 PM
She intended to free them all, knowing she couldn't, but that she could keep trying.
Jabir: I am 1: voicing my opinion, calling out wrong where I see it
First and foremost
Hannibal: To. What. End?
9:09 PM
Jabir: Until I live in the world I believe I can
Hannibal: You can ask me "why?" on anything I'm doing and I can (as Common said) break it down like whatever ya "uh."
I like the sound of that "live in a world I believe I can." Now, is shouting down Barry Obama the most strategic way to get there?
Jabir: It fits for me
9:10 PM
Hannibal: That's not what I asked.
Jabir: It's what I did for Bush
And Kerry
And Gore
And whatever else fools they try to give us
Hannibal: Still not what I asked. Bush and Kerry and Lincoln and Kennedy are nothing like Obama.
Jabir: No?
Hannibal: Despite whatever comparisons.
Jabir: He's only half Black
Hannibal: Oh, here we go with this ...
Jabir: They've got at least 50% in common
9:11 PM
Hannibal: Do you know what the police thought of my half-black friend in high school when he got beaten down with batons?
They thought he fell like the rest of us.
Jabir: See, unlike most people, I don't really care what color a politician is
Hannibal: This ain't South Africa where "half" can really (and legally) get you a white pass.
Jabir: When people say to me, "I'm just voting for him cuz I think it would be cool to have a Brotha in the White House" I argue less
9:12 PM
Hannibal: Okay, let me expand the argument then. Yellling against Bush or Obama is still, at the end of the day, yelling.
If you sway six votes, sixty, six hundred ... so? What difference will that make?
Jabir: But when people tell me that there are SUBSTANTIAL differences, on paper, between Obama and the rest of them devils
I'm fightin'
Hannibal: Fighting is, I suppose, fine. But are you fighting to *win*?
9:13 PM
Because fighting without victory in mind is like being a Klingon.
Jabir: I'm fighting to stand on the side of right
If THAT is what you have to do to win, I want no part of it
If you have to lie and cheat and side with wrong
No thanks
Hannibal: Forget "people" -- we're in this tonight. I appreciate the concept of standing on principle, but does your faith not have any allowances for strategic planning?
9:14 PM
Again, I'm not here saying side with Barry, vote for Barry, or any of that. That's not my argument.
Jabir: But when I die, I will be on record with God as saying, "Yes, Lord, I saw what they were doing, but you SAW ME!"
Hannibal: My argument is that you fighting Barry is like war in Iraq. Sure, you're fighting, but it's pointless.
9:15 PM
I'm saying your troops should be in a metaphorical Afghanistan, if that's the war you wanna win. Or, honestly, your troops should be at the Carlyle Group.
Jabir: I don't think so
lol
Hannibal: You don't think so *why*?
What evidence backs you up?
Jabir: Because I get my victories every day
9:16 PM
Hannibal: Which -- again -- sounds like ego. Not something measurable, something strategic, something that can be built upon in the future. I don't know "your victories," so I can't speak wholly authoritatively on 'em, but singular victories sound like Kobe to me.
Jabir: My 14 year old nephew hopped in my car the other day... shoot, I think he's 15
9:17 PM
And he said, "I'm getting tired of all this Obama stuff."
Hannibal: ... which leads to what, exactly?
Jabir: 20 years from now, maybe a Black man running for office that you don't have to make excuses for
9:18 PM
Hannibal: So in the mean time, you're comfortable with John McCain, the devil we do know, shuffling into the Oval Office for a hundred more years in Iraq?
With my Marine friends going door to door in Fallujah with shotguns
9:19 PM
Jabir: I ask people, "What did Jeremiah Wright say that you disagree with?"
What's the other option?
They will both do the same thing
Both have sworn undying allegiance to Israel
9:20 PM
Both have said RECENTLY that we ain't leaving Iraq no time soon
Both support the PATRIOT Act
Both support the gubment wiretapping, spying on us
Both supported FISA
Both think the "War on Terror" is a good idea
Hannibal: I don't argue any of that.
The other option is to divest from an unwinnable game of poli-tricks and lies.
The other option is to take the energy you're spending on changing minds away from Obama and change them away from high fructose corn syrup or pork or Kim Kardashian or something really dangerous.
I use all of that as my evidence that fighting against either of them is a waste of time and wholly unstrategic.
9:21 PM
Jabir: I don't see it that way
9:22 PM
Hannibal: If your "strategy" is to have, 20 years down the line, a candidate you can believe in running for an office which changes nothing, well, I don't see what you have to gain. I sure don't see what I'll have to gain.
I don't see what the four year old girl sleeping in the next room has to gain from it.
Now, getting her and her friends scared of high fructose corn syrup, that I can see.
9:23 PM
Jabir: It's not about JUST the president
If it's even tangentially about the president, it's squandered time and resources, IMNSHO.
It's about the mayor, the city council, the governor, the senators, representatives, police chief
Hell, the dog catcher, that matters too
Hannibal: Wastes of time from top to bottom.
9:24 PM
The system is set up to expend our energies to accomplish essentially nothing.
Jabir: No matter what, it affects my life, so changing it can't be a waste
Hannibal: The same exact things my father went through, I go through. I just have an MP3 player where he had a hi-fi.
Jabir: If that was the case, there would be no "Change" that Obama people chant about
Hannibal: Again you bring up these "people" ...
9:25 PM
Jabir: I wouldn't be sitting in the office right now if somebody hadn't fought or died for the opportunity
It matters
Hannibal: What, through *politics*, have you -- hell, or almost anybody -- been able to "change" empirically for the betterment of Black people?
9:26 PM
Jabir: The basics?
Hannibal: What basics?
Jabir: Easiest one is affirmative action
Hannibal: Black life still means nothing. Ask Donovan Jackson.
9:27 PM
Affirmative action is the equivalent of feeding the house slaves better than field hands. The percentages never changed.
Despite increases in amounts.
I'm happy to have its advantages, but it doesn't even remotely even a playing field.
Jabir: Those are two different things
9:28 PM
Hannibal: Moreover, as even Martin indicated in later conversations, it was the death knell of Black industry in this country.
Jabir: And it would be better off today if WE were working to fix it harder than THEY were to end it
Hannibal: Or, we'd be better off today if WE were working to build something for ourselves.
9:30 PM
If WE had built our industry to the point where a Black entity could never have to be concerned about white funders because there'd be enough Black funding opportunities, from venture capital to non profit.
Jabir: Debatable
Hannibal: But instead we buy signs and domains for campaigns that end and do nothing.
We're debating. Pick me apart, if so.
Jabir: That doesn't make a thing not worth fighting for, just because someone believes it could be done better
9:31 PM
The place where I come from says most people spend their time and energy doing NOTHING
Hannibal: Again, I studied The Book of Five Rings. If I can attack a fort with five of my pals and maybe accomplish something, or I could wait and attack it with fifty, why not wait and gather fifty?
Jabir: Most people are just waiting
9:32 PM
"Hoping"
Hannibal: Oh, they do stuff. They buy booze and pay cable bills and fill their homes with consumerist crap.
Jabir: Yeah, I did that
Hannibal: They do plenty
9:33 PM
The war is bigger than any one fight, and that's the great point where Booker T. Washington was misunderstood (and yes, as a southerner, I'm gonna come down on this side).
Building something for yourself is always gonna be better than tearing anything down.
Tactically, strategically, spiritually.
9:34 PM
Jabir: Maybe
I don't agree
Hannibal: You're waffling, now! >8^p
Jabir: No
9:35 PM
Hannibal: Convince me, then. I'm smart. I have access to people. Make me believe as you do, because I could be farther from you than Cindy McCain here.
9:36 PM
Jabir: If I knew how to do that, Nader would have a Secret Service detail right now
Hannibal: Hannibal bursts into laughter
Nader. Speaking of quixotic ...
9:37 PM
By the way, fun fact: Nader's still a white guy. Just saying ... >8^)
9:38 PM
I mean, I know John Brown was too, but still ...
Jabir: lol
9:39 PM
Nader represents and HAS LONG represented the side I believe in
Hannibal: That side being quixoticism?
9:40 PM
I was down with Nader when he worked with striking at people economically. That worked. He achieved some stuff. Now? He's a punchline.
He's a less funny Dennis Kucinich (sp?)
Jabir: To some
Hannibal: To a preponderance, and one supported by evidence.
Jabir: To me, he's the candidate who best represents my side of the issues
9:41 PM
Nelson Mandela was a terrorist until 2008
Hannibal: Again, I say any candidate is like pouring your energy down a drainage ditch.
Jabir: I don't let "the man" or public opinion influence me as much as they wanna
And I say these people make changes that affect your life, every day
Hannibal: Nelson Mandela stopped being a terrorist before they let him outta jail. He pansied up a long time ago, or the second he got "elected," there'd have been some nuclear exchanges with somebody.
9:42 PM
I say I can work to build a life where their effect diminishes continually.
I say you can too.
Jabir: USA Today Article: "U.S. has Mandela on terrorist list" ...
From April 2008
9:43 PM
Hannibal: USA Today: Not worth reading unless it's Whitney Matheson's Pop Candy.
Jabir: July 1, 2008, Nelson Mandela removed from US State Department list of known terrorists.
9:44 PM
So I don't care too much for how "they" wanna label somebody
Hannibal: And we're back then ...
That's as bad as the AP (Associated Propaganda).
We don't seem to have come to any conclusions here, and our difference of opinion is largely of tactics ... would that be a fair assessment?
Well, strategy and tactics ...
9:47 PM
Jabir: Sounds fair
Hannibal: So on Barry Obama we can agree to disagree, with you having your hate and me holding on to my indifference.
Jabir: Can I say one last thing, on the record?
Hannibal: Sure thing!
Jabir: F*** Mobb Deep
F*** Biggie
9:48 PM
F*** Bad Boy as a staff record label and as a motherf***in crew
If you wanna be down with Bad Boy, then f*** you too.
Hannibal: Those are sentiments I can be on board with, if not a change I can believe in.
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